A Conversation I Had

So I had a conversation on http://www.thinkingchristian.net/posts/2013/01/rationalizing-christian/. You can find it at the bottom (or close to it, if people have been commenting). At any rate, here is what was said:
ME: I wouldn’t say the Bible is unhistorical. Its just not representative of the Christian religion until the New Testament. The Old Testament is taken from Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Greek, and other more ancient religions. The Old Testament is a horrible representative of Christian religion, historically speaking, because it is direct plagarism from other religions. The New Testament, is a farce at best. Let me explain. The NT, when all the documents were gathered, were like merky water. There is so much that is left out of the NT because it didn’t ‘fit’ with how some powerful people believed in it. So they put this merky water through purification to have it declare only what they want it to. Is it a first hand account of Jesus? Not even close. The NT was written in 150 A.D. That is over 100 years after Jesus was crucified. Was Josephus a first hand account? No. He was born around 37 A.D. which is after Jesus was Crucified as well. At best the NT is a 3rd or 4th hand account of the life of Jesus. That doesn’t prove that Jesus rose from the dead any more than a blog about Elvis proves that Elvis never died. It just means that it is plausable that Jesus might have existed around the 1st century. Well so did Arthrongs, Appolonius of Tyana, and many more messiahs so other Jewish sects.

RESPONSE: You first, Gary. Give us reasons as to why anyone should think your assertions are true. Here are some that you made.

Gary asserted that the following is true:

1) There is so much that is left out of the NT because it didn’t ‘fit’ with how some powerful people believed in it. So they put this merky water through purification to have it declare only what they want it to.

2) Is it a first hand account of Jesus? Not even close.

3) At best the NT is a 3rd or 4th hand account of the life of Jesus.

4) The Biblical stories (ask a really good theologian) in the OT are taken directly from ancient Mesopotamian religions.

5) Really, I am an ancient historian. I know what I’m talking about.

I skipped a few things, but the above information is what is more important (pertinent to the question at least).

Here is the answer:

1. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HxdB6LUJZ08
2. The NT was written OVER 100 YEARS AFTER JESUS DIED. Take a history class and you will soon learn what a first hand account is.
3. ^
4. Ask a theologian. Google the epic of Gilgamesh. Also google the name “ziusudra” Let me give you some back ground. All the flood stories occur around a river called the euphrates, which floods every spring. around 2900 BCE there was a 6 day storm which made the river flood even more and it killed a lot of people. Our king, ziusudra, comandeered a local barge, filled it with valuables and rode the river downstream to the Persian Gulf. He laded on a hilltop and gave thanks to God because he was still alive. There is Noah’s Ark for you. There are also many other flood stories along side these two. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

Google the Tower of Babel, that also isn’t originally Judeo Christian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

Gensis: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=O4MhThxAF7I&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DO4MhThxAF7I

5. I have spent the last 5 years studying ancient history, archeology, anthropology (human evolutionary process).

About Gary White

Check out the "About Me" page on my blog :)
This entry was posted in ancient history, atheism, catholicism, christianity, debate, discussion, history, islam, religion, theism, Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

5 Responses to A Conversation I Had

  1. alid says:

    Just wondering, what is the video in response 1? It’s blocked on copyright where I am.

  2. alid says:

    Also, would you mind substantiating the claim that the NT was written over 100 years after Jesus died? (I appreciate that is a big topic, perhaps a future blog post?)

  3. Gary White says:

    See if this works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXlFWBcxBo start at 50:21 for the NT, the first part is the OT.
    As for your other question. I will be happy to provide the evidence. I will write two posts, one for your question, and the other for the time line of the Bible.

  4. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re just making stuff up and then trolling wikipedia to look for support. No credible biblical scholars, regardless of creed, believe that any part of the Bible was written after 100AD. And it can be spelled murky, or less often mirky, but never merky.

  5. Gary White says:

    Pastor, I have been studying this for the last 5 years. I know exactly what I’m talking about. I have sat down with historians and theologians alike that will agree with me on the time line of the bible. I am specifically talking NT here. The OT was about 2000 BCE. Perhaps you need to do better research or refine your reading skills because I said that the only reason I cite Wikipedia is because it is a good place to start research, and I actually read the pages and the information on there to make sure that it isn’t just made up. I check my facts.
    If you are angry about my research then just don’t read it Pastor. Simple as that. If you want to refute me, fine, go ahead. Provide some evidence, tell me about your education in Ancient History and archaeology. I have studied Ancient History (with a focus on the Middle East) for 5 years now, archaeology for 2 years now. Please read through what I have cited and tell my what you are refuting and why. Then provide better research. Aren’t willing to do that? Then don’t comment.
    The problem is that the Bible was not written at the same time, but it was compiled at around the same time. Perhaps you have heard of man called King James (I know, where has that name come up before?) He was the man to compile the Bible as we read it today. Yes yes I know, the Councel of Nicaea in 325 did that as well. And guess what. He left out a whole lot of stuff because he didn’t think it fit in with how he believed in the bible. So yea, the New Testament as you read it IS NOT a first hand account of Jesus’ life. There is still debate as to whether there ever existed a man named Yeshua who claimed to be the son of God. I would say that it is probable that the man existed. Yeshua was a common name in the 1st century. What you may not know is that there also existed a man named Arthrongs who claimed to be the son of God to another Jewish sect. Apollonius of Tyana also claimed to be the son of God. Simon of Peraea, Simon Magus, and the list goes on.

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